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oksy777
30th August 2002, 14:00
Young King Arthur was ambushed and imprisoned by the monarch of a neighboring kingdom. The monarch could have killed him, but was moved by Arthur's youth and ideals. So the monarch offered him freedom, as long as he could answer a very difficult question. Arthur would have a year to figure out the answer; if, after a year, he still had no answer, he would be put to death.

The question: What do women really want?

Such a question would perplex even the most knowledgeable man, and, to young Arthur, it seemed an impossible query. But, since it was better than death, he accepted the monarch's proposition to have an answer by year's end. He returned to his kingdom and began to poll everybody: the princess, the prostitutes, the priests, the wise men, and the court jester. He spoke with everyone, but no one could give him a satisfactory answer. Many people advised him to consult the old witch--only she would know the answer. The price would be high; the witch was famous throughout the kingdom for the exorbitant prices she charged.

The last day of the year arrived and Arthur had no alternative but to talk to the witch. She agreed to answer his question, but he'd have to accept her price first: The old witch wanted to marry Gawain, the most noble of the Knights of the Round Table and Arthur's closest friend! Young Arthur was horrified: She was hunchbacked and hideous, had only one tooth, smelled like sewage, made obscene noises... etc. He had never encountered such a repugnant creature. He refused to force his friend to marry her and have to endure such a burden.

Gawain, upon learning of the proposal, spoke with Arthur. He told him that nothing was too big a sacrifice compared to Arthur's life and the preservation of the Round Table. Hence, their wedding
was proclaimed, and the witch answered Arthur's question thus:

What a woman really wants is to be in charge of her own life.

Everyone instantly knew that the witch had uttered a great truth and that Arthur's life would be spared. And so it was. The neighboring monarch granted Arthur total freedom.

What a wedding Gawain and the witch had! Arthur was torn between relief and anguish. Gawain was proper as always, gentle and courteous. The old witch put her worst manners on display, and generally made everyone very uncomfortable.

The honeymoon hour approached. Gawain, steeling himself for a horrific experience, entered the bedroom. But what a sight awaited him! The most beautiful woman he'd ever seen lay before him! The astounded Gawain asked what had happened. The beauty replied that since he had been so kind to her when she'd appeared as a witch, she would henceforth be her horrible, deformed self half the time, and the other half, she would be her beautiful maiden self.

Which would he want her to be during the day, and which during the night?

What a cruel question! Gawain pondered his predicament. During the day, a beautiful woman to show off to his friends, but at night, in the privacy of his home, an old witch? Or would he prefer having by day a hideous witch, but by night a beautiful woman with whom to enjoy many intimate moments?

What would you do?

I’ll reveal Noble Gawain decision sometime later.

zmax2001
30th August 2002, 14:27
vtoroe?

oksy777
30th August 2002, 14:33
Why? I won't say what he chose yet; I will post it after a few people reply. But why would you rather have a gorgeous woman in bed while ugly one during the day? You don’t think that spending days with pleasant women is not as important as spending the night?

PS: What about you girls? what is the situation was reversed?

zmax2001
30th August 2002, 14:47
Eto prosto. Jenshina mujchine nujna v pervuyu ochered' dlya sexual'nih udovol'stvii. Bez etogo nichego ne poluchitsya.
Intelektual'no s nei mojno i v obraze ved'mi obshatsya. K tomuje dnem nado hodit' na raboru (ili chto tam u ricarei :)), mojno knijki pochitat', internet, s druz'yami poobshatsya opyat' je. A noch'u nujna prekrasnaya jenshina v posteli. Tak chto etot variant mnogo luchshe chem pervii.

zmax2001
30th August 2002, 14:53
A gde ti beresh takie istorii? bilobi interesno pochitat'....

Вероника
30th August 2002, 15:15
Oksy,
Is your question regarding an outside ugliness/beauty only, or you mean the whole picture (personality+look)?

oksy777
30th August 2002, 15:19
Compete beauty.. looks fade...

darkie
30th August 2002, 15:26
Ya bi vibral dnem. Noch'yu vse ravno ni shisha ne vidno.

p.s. A intimnimi momentami mozhno i dnem zanimat'sya. ;)

Oaklily
30th August 2002, 17:20
The right answer lies in the witch's response to Arthur's question - what do women really want?

If what women really want is to control their own lives, then Gawain's answer to the witch's question, of when does he want the beauty, by day or by night, can only be one thing: "it's up to you, dear."

That is the moral of the story.

darkie
30th August 2002, 21:22
Автор оригинала: Oaklily
can only be one thing: "it's up to you, dear."


You made it sound like "whatever, dear. i don't care" ;)

Na chto sootvetstvenno sleduyushaya ee fraza budet korotkoj i yasnoj, kak hook sprava. S posleduyushim perehodom v ul'trazvuk.

bad. bad answer. ;)

catwalk
31st August 2002, 18:27
Я так полагаю, что прекрасные колдуньи и благородные рыцари должны служить примером нам, простым смертным. Но все персонажи этои истории выглядят довольно неприглядно для меня. Собственно, поверxностная мораль здесь звучит так:
"благородные рыцари уважают решения женшины и будут вознаграждены за это" (если будут хорошо себя вести). Но если посмотреть внимательнее то мы увидим, что женшины под стремлением распоряжаться своеи жизнью имеют в виду также и жизнь другиx людеи. Что отчасти справедливо, так как мужчины в легенде поxоже не способны на свободные решения - xоть они и попадают в паутину своего благородства и женскои xитрости, но даже имея (предоставленную женшинои) возможность сделать выбор - остаются пассивными.
Мужчины следуют неким абстрактным правилам рыцарского поведения - поэтому легко управляемы; они не знают что им нужно в жизни - поэтому попадают в зависимость от того, кто знает.
Колдунье "по-барабану" страдания другиx людеи, пользуясь иx слабостью она лишает иx воли и делает несчастными. Впоследствии она (xорошенько натешившись) осчастливливает иx "взад". Она не только уверена что лучше другиx знает, что им нужно, но и считает себя вправе манипулировать ими как заxочет.
И наверно этот так называемыи "рыцарь" лучшего не заслуживает, он получил то что и должно было вырасти из его инфантильности.

oksy777
1st September 2002, 23:09
Catwalk, the way your analyzed this tale, you can analyze all fairytales. All of them will fall into the same pitfalls. Of course to prove a point, usually a tale will ask a reader to see one-sided story.. Come on, can we take things easier? This actually, I thought, was a fun story, where the punishment of some action resulted in a thought provoking question.. Name a situation when a men figuring out his life didn’t have happiness or unhappiness of others at the expense?
If you think that being noble disables men (or women) from some actions, then you are absolutely right. And thank god! Being a good, loyal friend, being a good person with morals and a word of gold, limits what one can do. So, why do you need to nitpick just cause you don’t like what the tale says? Why are you being so defensive?

catwalk
2nd September 2002, 23:21
The story is though-provoking, and it not the question that was asked but the answers that were given here.

No one seemed to notice that the moment she asked him her question the beauty turned out to be a b%tch and the knight switched from a hero into a fool on his "up-to-you-my-dear" answer. There's really no difference in her being a b%tch one or 23 hours a day. Yet people here were excited about being able to love her when she wants it and being f*cked up by her caprice - that means that it's normal for us to put up with the beauty being a b%tch and a knight - her toy.

And yes, I am defensive - I defend those archetypical images of Hero and Beauty which were so skewed in this story. Those images (even if we are not following them) define the moral space in a way which allows us all to tell white from black. I am defensive because I would be insulted if I were the knight and no one else here would not.

This is not a fairy-tale, because there's no beauty and no hero. But the fact they were accepted in this way let us know who we are and how we see the world.

Ваня
3rd September 2002, 09:41
Nochiu konechno puskai budet "beauty", a dnem, blin, posadit' na bazar i puskai den'gi zarabatyvaet svoim gadaniem. A esli dnem prispichit, to mozhno i s molochnitzei pobalovat'sya.
Tak to ono i lushe i po-rytzarski!

oksy777
4th September 2002, 13:35
The story ends this way:

Noble Gawain replied that he would let her choose for
herself. Upon hearing this, she announced that she
would be beautiful all the time, because he had
respected her enough to let her being charge of her
own life.

What is the moral of this story?

The moral is:

If your woman doesn't get her own way, things are
going to get ugly!

Ваня
4th September 2002, 14:01
For which I reply - Baloney! S bol'shoi bukvy.
Intelligentskii bred :) I sami zhenshiny tomu primer. Po krainei mere, russkie zhenshiny, kotorye mnogo interesnee i estesstvennei, sami tak i zayavlyaiut, chto im nadoelo byt' ïn charge of their life, i oni hotyat chtob nakonetz muzhik i pozabotilsya o blagopoluchii semeinoi zhizni. Vyrazhaetsya eto obychno takimi slovami: "hochu sil'nogo, uverennogo v sebe muzhchinu sposobnogo prinimat' reshenia!"
Halleluia!

poramoidryg
5th September 2002, 14:06
Vanya, I'm with you, buddy!

Oksy, will you tell us what functions do you allocate for the man in your life?

oksy777
5th September 2002, 16:29
To: poramoidryg

Say "you seem to have a hard time sticking to the thread of the conversation, I responded to you in the “Going to Russia thread” and you have some questions to answer yourself before you worry about what "functions I allocate" for the man in my life. but so that you don't feel short changed for a response, as you may feel short changed with your experience with women, ill tell you now that the functions I provide for my man are founded on the deep roots of friendship, where you keep your mind and heart open to the needs and desire of the other and help them lead themselves, or walk together to get there, to a mutually desired goal - in other words, what I give him is love in the form of daily actions, love that does not always come in the form of macaroni and cheese/ borsch or comforting candy coated words ...that might preserve his tenderness, rather love in action that make him more of the man he wants to be "and vice versa".

poramoidryg
5th September 2002, 17:38
Oksy,
Sorry, I thought the previous topic was exhausted. Besides, I found some answers I was looking for on
http://www.zhensovet.com/utf/display_forum_topics.asp?ForumID=14 , so you might want to compare them with yours just for fun of it.
In any case, considering your last post and according to my extensive background and experience with women, you are really one of a kind, well worth winning your heart and I sincerely wish you the best of luck!